TLV Inbox

[greatoldjohn]

[in a rather deep voice] "This is John Doe. Please leave your message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I may respond in text if I'm currently with Arthur. Apologies."

Now Moved To: Inbox: Act II - please tag in there!

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[greatoldjohn]

[ He considers how he wants to say this. ]

[ You said 'we'. But it seems more like 'you', in this case. You want space sometimes. And she doesn't understand why that is, or misunderstands it as a sign that you think she's done something wrong, that you want to hurt her for some reason.

Have you talked about your need for space when you weren't already needing it? ]

[pitofguilt]

[ That feels like getting splashed with ice cold water. It's true. She's the one who wanted space, while Misty wanted more time together. ]

...no. I haven't. Only when I really needed to be alone.

[greatoldjohn]

[ ...when you have the least amount of patience and the most amount of need to get away from her. Need that makes you say things that hurt her, which just reinforces the idea that you're actually punishing her and don't want to admit it. ]

[pitofguilt]

Fuck. [ The swear comes out in a sigh. ] I'm the asshole.

[ Because he's right. She's only ever asked for space when she's on the edge of panicking. When she panics, she runs, and she does not stop to see who or what gets knocked over in the process.

She puts her head in her hands, elbows on the table, and breathes deeply. It doesn't really occur to her that she wants to stay here hidden away with John, as opposed to running away from him too. ]

I don't wanna hurt her. I just need... space. A lot more than she does. And a lot more often.

[greatoldjohn]

[ Not necessarily. ]

[ He's only got her right leg this time around, and her hearing; he wonders if she's just gotten used to the emptiness and focused on his voice automatically. It's an easy enough one to handle, at least. But he shifts the leg a little and nudges her other foot gently, a soft touch. ]

[ It's something you should take the time to talk to her about when both of you are in a good place to talk. She needs to understand your needs. And you need to understand her needs. And both of you need to agree on how to handle the differences between them so that you don't misinterpret them taking care of themselves as an attack.

There's going to need to be bending on both sides if you want this to work.]

[pitofguilt]

[ A rueful chuckle. ]

Not sure there'll ever be a good time for both of us.

[ They're both stubborn, defensive, and ready to fight back in their own ways. Their last argument is proof of that. ]

Pretty sure I'm the one who has to start the conversation.

[ The absolute silence helps her think. The touch to her left foot, and the sound of John's voice, soften the sharp edges of the topic at hand. It's like the whole world has paused so she can take a breath and catch up. ]

Wanna take bets on how many times we'll try to have the talk before we get through to each other?

[greatoldjohn]

[ You will. But being the one to start it also means you can be the one to lay out what needs to be done, and it means you can consider what your boundaries are and where you think you can bend without causing damage to anything. You'll have the time to consider what you want to say.

Keep that in mind when you talk to her: that you were prepared and she wasn't. It might leave her on the defensive and taking advantage of that will only make things harder. ]

[ A brief pause then- ]

[ No bet. I know better. ]

[pitofguilt]

You've got more faith than I do.

[ But he's right. Her starting this means Misty will be on the defensive, so she has to be-- not calculated. That implies manipulation. She has to be the one to show they can talk with their guard down. ]

You've done this before, haven't you. Sounds like you have.

[greatoldjohn]

[ Remember: you're only an asshole sometimes. Make sure this isn't one of those times ]

There's a longer pause.

[ Yes, to some degree. The rest of it is just putting pieces together. ]

[pitofguilt]

That's weirdly encouraging.

[ And it isn't bullshit. No coddling, no blaming one side of the other on this. She appreciates that. ]

Done it for Arthur, or with him? You were both the asshole, weren't you.

[greatoldjohn]

[... I have the opportunity for reflection more often than he does. So I try to help out that way.]

[pitofguilt]

[ Right, okay, that was nosy of her. She murmurs ] Sorry [ and nods. Arthur sleeps, and John doesn't. That's a lot of extra time to think. ]

Thanks, by the way. For... listening. And helping. I don't do this a lot.

[ More like "at all" but who's keeping score. ]

[greatoldjohn]

[ ...what're you apologizing for? You didn't say anything out of turn. We *are* both assholes. I'm glad, at least, that you understand that. ]

[ There is a sound, a huff, mostly of amusement. ]

[ You're always welcome, Natalie. As many times as you need, whenever you need.

It's not a well, so it can't go dry. And you're independent enough I don't see it ever being a problem.]

[pitofguilt]

Didn't mean to sound like I was prying.

[ She hates it when people do it to her, so she's careful to avoid doing it herself.

Hahaha independent. It's called avoidant attachment. ]

If I come back here upset at some point, assume I tried and it went bad.

[greatoldjohn]

[ ...I literally got a whole file with your entire life in it. You're allowed to ask me about shit. It's fine, really. ]

[ The leg will nudge her again. ]

[ I want you to be prepared for it to go badly. Not like this, where you're being pessimistic. You need to know that your first try is going to be after the thing you said earlier. And she's not going to trust it because it's new and different from how you did things before.

Be prepared for it to go badly. And if you're going to do this, be ready right now to try again. Think of how long it took to get fucked up; it's going to take even longer to fix.

That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. ]

[pitofguilt]

Yeah. It's worth it.

[ To think that a few months ago, all she wanted was to make Misty leave her the fuck alone for good, and now... well, now she doesn't. ]

I've given her a fake apology before. She'll see this is different, even if she still isn't ready to talk to me for a while after.

[greatoldjohn]

[ You should address those fake apologies too. Talking things out...

It helps. Even if it isn't always enjoyable. ]

[pitofguilt]

We kinda have, a little. Sort of.

...okay, yeah. We should.

[ Does she realize just how much she cares, that this is even on the table? Not really. ]

[greatoldjohn]

[It's hard, and scary, but once you have things settled, you're a lot more comfortable.]

That's Arthur experience taking now.

[pitofguilt]

[ It is scary. It's terrifying. There's no telling how it will go when you let yourself be open like that. The only person she truly been that way with is... gone.

She's not quiet for very long, but John might sense the discomfort that flares in her while she is. ]

Things will change. Hopefully for the better.

[greatoldjohn]

[They've got a better chance of going better if you do this. Don't forget that fact. You don't control the relationship, but you do control how you choose to act towards her. What you choose to tell her.

It's easy to feel powerless, but you're more likely to fuck it up if you do. You're not powerless.

You have a plan and you know what you need and what you want. There will be setbacks, but you know you have me here to help any time you need. And I know you can handle this. ]

[pitofguilt]

[ She crosses her feet, resting her left atop the right, which is currently John's. She's not really sure why, given she's not very touchy most of the time, but there it is, and she's not taking it back. ]

Having a plan and wants and needs kinda feels like I'm going in for a grift.

[ For someone who lives in the gray area of life, that's very a black-and-white way of seeing it. ]

[greatoldjohn]

[Are you going in planning to get what you want and need, regardless of what's good for Misty?]

[ He wiggles her toes a little to nudge her foot in return. He's here.]

[Do you plan to work with her or to manipulate her to end the conflict?

If it's for both of you, and you're working with her with your cards on the table, it isn't a grift.]

[pitofguilt]

Then it's not.

[ She wants to make amends, yes, but... well, maybe she's just not best friend material. Maybe that's okay, though she can't imagine Misty not being hurt by that. Lying and pretending would be worse, though. It's a no-win scenario. Typical. ]

Back when I... attacked Arthur, she wasn't mad I used her. What bothered her was that I lied about why I wanted her to do it.

[greatoldjohn]

[...she should have been mad. Using someone like that isn't right, or good for a relationship.]

[ He wonders if Nat is like him in this way. ]

[Were you mad at yourself about it?]